Zero Edge The big bang got debunked before creationism did....
☕ David Antoine For the big bang to be debunked you would need one or more irreconcilable observations with the current model. And probably some kind of new quantum gravity theory to explain what happened at the singularity. Provided you can make sense of time and find a physical equivalent of the mathematical infinite that the singularity represents. Creationism is just religious nonsense. At least the Bible's fundamentalist literal interpretation of the creation. Believing there is a super power at the origins of the universe itself is something I relate to spiritually but doesn't make me reject science. Both are not mutually exclusive for me.
Zero Edge You literally believe the same thing either way. Either something always existed or something came from nothing. You believe a highly complex system that is capable of self replication and capable of creating complex systems such as life itself popped into existence. Just the simple interaction such as "this early particle interacted with this early particle to create a reaction" is belief that something existed (a fundamental structure at the very least). Our system is complex and no matter how you try to explain it you either believe: Something came from nothing, or something always existed.
☕ David Antoine How that system capable of self replication started initially is one of the most difficult problem scientists are trying solve. It probably took several hundred millions of years and countless false starts to initiate in its simplest form and did not just "popped into existence". Finding other replication pathways with unique other life forms maybe in our own solar system may help in solving how it started. And that purely scientific endeavor works with or without God. Creationism doesn't work without God. Even if our civilization would disappear and then restart somehow fresh, the laws of physics will remain the same. Not religion.
Zero Edge So your argument is that a highly complex system always existed (the laws of physics as you put it) but that isn't the only complex system you think always existed you believe every system including weather, life (birth), the complexities of the quantum realm, fire, and way more that I can't think of. Nothing in this universe is 'simple'. That is fine you believe a complex system always existed. I believe a extremely complex system always existed and it gave birth to our complex system. How exactly does your belief require any less faith than mine?
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☕ David Antoine I don't know if I should consider the laws of physics as a highly complex system in itself as physicists still don't know exactly what's fundamental and what's emergent. QM for example describes reality with probabilities while ensuring they strictly sum to 1 and is all constraint by the Pythagoras theorem and the imaginary number. They call it the unitarity. Simple basics, complex world. Same for life down the road, provided you have the right initial conditions. I just watched this, he talks about why is there something rather than nothing better then me and it is obsoletely not trivial:
Zero Edge Got it, so something coded itself. Much more believable.. A simple system that is capable of becoming a complex system is a complex system..
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